June Whitfield

June Whitfield

June Whitfield first appeared on the small screen in 1951 and her superb comic sensibility and versatility have meant that she has been a regular presence ever since. She has worked with many comedy greats and has now reached new generations with her role in Absolutely Fabulous.

Interviewed Sunday 21 November 2004 by Sylvia Syms

Interview © BFI 2004

Whitfield on Howerd, Morecambe, Scott and Emery

Veronica Taylor: Will you please welcome your host this afternoon, Miss Sylvia Syms. [applause]

Sylvia Syms: Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Now I've been brought up in the era of great actresses. I've had a funny feeling for years, mainly of jealousy, I think... Judi Dench, Maggie Smith... the list goes on. But there is one person that I really envy. You see she's not only massively talented, she's nice as well. If you read her book, you'll find she never says a horrid thing about anyone. In fact she said to me just now 'I never really met anyone horrid.' She is the remarkable, the delightful, the loveable... June Whitfield. [applause]

June Whitfield: Thank you very, very much. Thank you. It seems such a pity to interrupt the films, doesn't it? Anyway, very nice to see you all, and thank you for coming.

SS: You realise, now, that you're an institution, don't you?

JW: I don't know quite how to take that... an archive?

SS: Take it in the spirit in which it's meant. I've been an archive, no you're an institution.

JW: Oh all right then.

SS: Now the thing is Frankie Howerd could sometimes be tricky, but you obviously adored him as, I have to say, so did I. We have a lot of people in common that we worked with. Did the scripts make you laugh when you were rehearsing them?

JW: Frankie Howerd made me laugh. He was a bit of a giggler, wasn't he, really?

SS: He was a bit of a giggler, yes.

JW: And I do remember that particular sketch, and in my ignorance I suppose... at the beginning of the sketch there was a bit about... I'd just arrived... he was looking for a girlfriend, and he interviewed various women and I was one - in the gallery, and I said - I'd just arrived - I said 'kiss me, kiss me!' and the minute he came in he went near me I said 'don't touch me!' So she was raving mad, and I, in rehearsal, I was grabbing Frank by his head, and in my innocence - I didn't realise he was wearing a rug... [laughter] and he said 'if you could just... maybe just keep your hands down on my shoulders, just keep them on my shoulders.' Even then I didn't really realise and somebody said afterwards and I thought 'uh oh... haven't done well there.'

SS: He never looked as if he fitted it terribly well. It was kind of plonked on a bit, wasn't it?

JW: It was a plonker, wasn't it? [laughter]

SS: One of my favourite stories in your book, about giggling, is the one about Eric Morecambe and his shorts. I don't know how you got through the sketch at all. Please do tell them because it is lovely.

JW: Oh, there was a sketch in... we were out in the jungle and I think I was Ernie's girlfriend, and Eric of course was there, and he was wearing shorts, as you do, sort of safari stuff. And... all fine... dress rehearsal, everything. Came to the show and Eric came in. He sat down and the shorts did that. [laughter] And when he pushed them down they came... I mean it really was a bit much, one had never seen it before... and it was just... he was blissfully... he did business for about five minutes with these wretched shorts. And one had to stand there and try to look... luckily the camera wasn't on me when I was going 'ughhh'.

SS: He'd wired the bottom to make the gag.

JW: Yes, he'd wired them to stand up, when he sat down.

SS: But of course he never warned anyone about those gags, did he?

JW: Oh no. Not at all, no, no, that was all a surprise.

SS: All your shows that you did, you speak with great affection of all the comics, I mean, all the comics. And there are one or two I know. The Terry Scott thing was a very, very, very, very long relationship.

JW: Yes it was. We did, we did about 104 episodes of... starting with Happy Ever After, then TerryandJune. And of course before then I'd worked with him on the Scott on... series. The director was Kenneth Carter. I'd worked for Kenneth Carter and he invited me one day to go round to his house - he lived at Hurlingham - and meet Terry Scott, who was looking for someone to work with him on sketches and things in his Scotton... series. So I arrived, very nervous because Terry was already fairly established. And we just chatted and after a while I left. Apparently when I'd gone, Terry said 'Ken, she'll do.' [laughter] And he said afterwards, he was just as nervous of meeting me, I can't imagine why, but he was. But he was... I got on with him because... well, a) I wouldn't stand any nonsense and b) he was a perfectionist and if people didn't quite fall into his way of doing things, he could be a bit naughty to them. But all it needed was to answer him back, you know, because...

SS: You have an ability to be strong in your profession and answer back. I've - we did a long run together, I've seen you dealing with that - but you never lost your temper.

JW: Well no, because he'd say 'you don't want to do it like that, you want to do it like this. This is the way to do it.' And I'd say 'yes, you're absolutely right.' And then do it exactly the way I'd done it before. [laughter]

SS: May I just say that we were doing a long run with a tricky... very famous, very brilliant actor, and he would occasionally give us notes on stage - me particularly. And I went to June once and said 'what do I do about this man?' And she said 'the Roy Kinnear trick: nodding and smiling.'

JW: Yes, that's it...

SS: You say 'oh, right, fine...' and then you do it exactly...

JW: '... How clever of you to notice...'

SS: Yes, that's right... We're going to see an excerpt of one of the things that you did with Terry Scott. It's a ShowoftheWeek, Seven Deadly Sins, and Terry Scott is a gypsy singer violinist. Thank you.

JW: Shall we see that? Cause we can't see it here so we'll...

SS: We're going to nip down there so we can look at it... [laughter] You go down that side and I'll go down this side.

JW: Alright.

SS: Oh. [laughter] I told you I'd get the laugh. [laughter andapplause]

[Clip]

[applause]

JW: My god are you alright?

SS: I'm fat enough now to just roll.

JW: I don't remember that at all.

SS: You don't remember doing it?

JW: I don't remember doing that at all. Isn't that awful. [laughter]

SS: Well, it's a while back but it's quite a long sketch. [laughter] Now, we've got... I'm sure that you all know that this biography of her is so long, it's unbelievable.

JW: Don't read it. [laughter]

SS: No, I'm not going to. But I suggest you buy the book because it's a terrific read. Now the next we're going to talk about is Dick Emery.

JW: Yes.

SS: Because I think - and I worked with him in a movie - I think he was one of the most talented and versatile... I thought he was absolutely fantastic. And you loved working with him didn't you?

JW: Oh of course I did.

SS: Were the characters very interesting that he gave you to do?

JW: Well, for some reason, reasons best know to himself, I was always in sketches where we were on the surface... I don't know, we were either married or great friends or something, but we were always trying to kill each other. With poison or with something and smiling through. And he again, he loved to make you laugh. I don't know if you found that. He did his best to make you laugh during a scene. And so it was a challenge. [laughter] But it was great fun.

Whitfield on Coward, RADA and... her mother

SS: Well Noël Coward in your early career must have trained you not to laugh on stage, I imagine. Did he?

JW: Oh I wouldn't have dared.

SS: He was wicked. He liked to try and make people laugh, didn't he, and then give them a lecture afterwards.

JW: Ah yes, but I was never on stage with him. I just worked for him in Ace of Clubs. I said to him one time 'Would it be all right if I wore a fringe in this?' And he said 'Good idea. It will hide that vast expanse of forehead.' [laughter] You can't win.

SS: It's true. But he was quite acid and he obviously adored you, otherwise you would not have been in the show because he was very, very tough.

JW: He was a delight. I mean, that is one of the things in my career that I am so grateful for... that I actually worked for him. Because he was rightly know as the master. He was the master. He knew everybody's job, better than they did. He could have played any of the parts. You know, wrote it, did it, directed it, everything. Magnificent.

SS: He cared about how you looked.

JW: Always...

SS: He did?

JW: ...Fussed over the clothes.

SS: Oh yes.

JW: Oh he cared about every detail. Every detail.

SS: Now you went - you may not know this a lot of you, but I dragged her out recently to something - she went to the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art with people like Dickie Attenborough and Sheila Sim and so on. As your career turned out, I mean I know you worked an awful lot in the theatre to begin with, but as your career turned out, did you find it useful to have had that training? Because sometimes nowadays, I know you know this, a lot of young people think it's instant television and we all know how to do it straight away. And they think because they see the reality programmes they don't have to learn anything. Well you are a massive television star of... 53 years, did we decide? About?

JW: Roughly.

SS: Give or take.

JW: Give or take.

SS: Yes. And did you find the training useful in everything you did in the future?

JW: That's a very difficult question to answer. I think the most useful thing is experience. The most useful thing is doing it. And I always say - I don't know about you - to students or young people who... unfortunately nowadays, they always write and say 'my fees are going to cost £30,000 pounds or something, how about it?' Roy Hudd used to reply by saying 'thank you for your circular letter.' But I too have a son and he's going through this, that and the other. But I don't know whether they think it's beneath them to join a local dramatic company. You do it, get out there and do it in front of an audience. It doesn't matter whether it's amateur, really, does it, or professional?

SS: Because your mum was a very keen amateur, wasn't she?

JW: Oh my mum was queen bee of the amateur dramatics, absolutely. And she would have like to have been professional but her father wouldn't let her. Actors were rogues and vagabonds and... don't go anywhere near them.

SS: Nothing's changed.

JW: So I think... she wasn't a pushy mum, but from a very early age I took dancing classes and all the things that you do and I loved it. I mean there was no question of forcing.

SS: No. Well I gather from your book that it was a very happy, very supportive home.

JW: Oh terrific.

SS: When we were doing the play together, your mum was still living with you, I think. And you used to nip in and leave for a meal for the microwave. I'll never forget that. We were doing two shows one day and... I don't know what I was doing at your house but you said 'I must leave this for my mum.'

JW: Oh, alright then.

SS: Very touching, I think.

JW: Well, she wasn't very good with the cooking, I must admit.

SS: No?

JW: No.

SS: Well we all have different talents.

JW: Yes, she read somewhere that it was a good idea to put a drop of vinegar in when poaching an egg to help it coagulate. And unfortunately she did it with fried eggs. That wasn't so good. [laughter]

SS: The comedy turn was obviously there already.

JW: It was there.

SS: We are now going to see a little bit of The Dick Emery Show, if you can get that tape ready. This is a sketch in a pub. And the customer says to June Whitfield and Dick Emery 'I wish Doreen and I were as happy as you two.' Now we're going to get off that side because I'm not doing that trick again.

JW: Yes, please. Let me take you by the hand. [laughter] Sorry about that.

SS: Don't worry. Is that okay, have you got that one ready, please?

[Clip]

[applause]

Whitfield on beauty, Terry and June and celebrity

SS: In your book, June, you mention the fact that you never thought you were beautiful.

JW: Well...

SS: Everyone here will say 'that is the most ravishing blonde'. I mean incredible. [applause]

JW: Well...

SS: You were so very, very, very pretty.

JW: No one ever said. [laughter]

SS: You didn't listen to them. In the next bit, we've got - I think my eyes are working, I've got new contact lenses in.

JW: Very clever.

SS: You know my daughter had to put them in for me. [laughter]

JW: Don't ask me because I haven't got any contact lenses or glasses. So I won't...

SS: No, no, no. I can just about see it if I hold it well away. Terry and June again.

JW: Yes.

SS: Starts with a shot of Terry undressing in the dark. Do you remember anything about this episode of the... how many episodes did you do, 1004?

JW: No. I mean...

SS: 104?

JW: Yes. I won't know until it starts.

SS: Right. I've got one question away from that. You can get that one ready okay? As you see, I'm a total amateur at this. But they said if I shouted loud enough, they'd hear.

JW: That makes two of us. [laughter]

SS: Cheers. You describe yourself as just a character actress. Like Ronnie Barker. Don't you think that's a bit daft? Because an actress is an actress is an actress. And we know you can do hundreds of different things. Did you feel it was... to call yourself a character actress was somehow less than being a star player?

JW: No, I think character rather than glamorous leading lady because... not tall enough, the wrong shape, the wrong face and all the rest of it. I mean even at RADA I think people were saying 'Oh, you'll come into your own when your 40. [laughter] You know, which is always good when you're seventeen.

SS: I think it's also... I think a character actress is simply just a good actor. Because we should all be using our... changing as the character demands, not simply doing it on a personality, which is repeated time and time again.

JW: Oh, absolutely. Ah, but that's a celebrity, isn't it?

SS: Oh is that what they call it nowadays.

JW: Well, a personality who's always doing the same thing is... no that's not true because there are actors and you always know who they are... and then there's Alec Guinness, you know 'good heavens, was that him?'

SS: But the versatility of what you do in everybody else's shows is to me... that's the cream of acting.

JW: Well, I like to think I'm an actor. Yes, I like to think I am.

SS: I don't think there's any reason for you to doubt it.

JW: I think the character thing comes from, in my case, lack of confidence in being yourself, to start with, because... and I think it applies to a lot of comics too, because they talk about being bullied at school and the only way they could get out of it was to make the others laugh and that kind of thing.

SS: That's right.

JW: Are you alright? Oh, she's got a camera. I thought you were going. [laughter] Sorry.

SS: Yes, you haven't got your glasses on, have you dear, no. That's a big tall camera with a lady behind.

JW: Lady with camera.

SS: I gathered, when we first of all discussed doing this, that you hated talking as yourself.

JW: Yes.

SS: You didn't mind doing characters, which you wouldn't... you didn't like being interviewed.

JW: Not really, because I think I'm so boring. You know it's so sort of... and I've said it all before and you think what can I say that's new...

SS: Yes, but you haven't said it to these people. Every time you speak it's fresh and new. And I would think by now you would have to know that we're all huge fans. As I say, you're a great institution.

JW: Sylvia, you're making my day. [laughter]

SS: Your daughter gave me some money to do it. [laughter and applause] Now can we have the next clip please? Which is the one with Terry Scott, getting undressed and June will no doubt recognise it.

JW: Oh thank you. [laughter] Careful.

SS: Just thought something exciting mightn't have happened in all those comedy shows.

JW: No. [laughter]

[Clip]

JW: Don't remember that one either.

Whitfield on creative input and straight parts

SS: Did you have to do much collaborative writing on the series?

JW: Oh no. No, no, no. Very seldom, I mean, I might have occasionally come out with a line but that's about all. No, no, no, it was all written. Mostly by... well to start with it was John Chapman and Eric Merriman and then it became John Kane for Happy Ever After... no, for Terry and June.

SS: Would you have liked to be asked more about how your character should speak?

JW: No, I would say sometimes, I would say 'Oh, I can't say that to him. It sounds awful. You know if I said that to my husband I'd be out of the door.' And they said 'Yes you can because his character is so pompous and he needs taking down a peg or something.' So I would say 'yes alright then.' And do it. But I did think sometimes that June was... she was more like his mother than his wife and not many wives would behave as she did and not many husbands would put up with it, I think. However, it did... at one time there were ten million viewers and of course the critics thought that it was bland and boring and very middle class and this, that and the other, all the things that are now dirty words. And replaced by dirty words, really, on the whole.

SS: Yes, that's a nice comment you make in your book, that comedy hasn't changed, just the surroundings.

JW: It's... yes, people have said 'how do you manage to fit in with... from things like Terry and June and then work with Julian Clary and things like that and I say 'Well, I'm doing exactly the same thing. It's what's around me that's changed.'

SS: We've got another little bit of... no, I want to ask you something very serious. I know that with your RADA training and all the different parts you've done, there's often been a yen - she's done a lot of very big parts in the theatre, you have to realise there's a whole other career there... have you longed to do serious parts sometimes?

JW: No. [laughter] No, I have never longed. I've enjoyed it on the occasions when I have but I must admit, I would always rather be in something that raises a laugh with people, rather than making them go out of the theatre like that... you know, thinking 'oh my god, that was a big slab of misery, wasn't it? [laughter]

SS: Do you enjoy seeing serious plays yourself sometimes?

JW: Yes... depends what they are, yes I do, I do enjoy it and I always admire the actors, tremendously. I think that they're quite brilliant. But I do think that comedy actors can adapt to straight plays, theatre, everything, more than some straight actors can adapt to comedy. I don't know why it is. Maybe it's because - which is maybe why I very seldom do straight parts - because, certainly when I was younger, I would always find something funny in it, which doesn't help. [laughter]

SS: Well, there are a lot of funny lines in Hamlet, if you get it right.

JW: Well, I'm sure, I'm sure. You mean, meant to be funny.

SS: Oh yeah, there are jokes.

JW: Yes but I would find funny things that actually weren't meant to be funny. [laughter]

SS: Your comment about serious actors finding the comedy difficult is... I will remember that the next time I'm talking to students.

JW: Do you agree?

SS: I totally, totally, because comedy is so much about a certain kind of music in the ear.

JW: Yes.

SS: Now, tell us about that.

JW: Well, I once did - well it wasn't really comedy - Tony Britton directed An Ideal Husband.

SS: That is a comedy.

JW: And it is a comedy. And he would always say 'You must look for the tune. Everything has a tune.' And he's absolutely right, every kind of accent has a tune. You can... in the very basic form... I mean Welsh goes up and down and Irish goes off the other way and falls through the air... there's always a rhythm and a tune about things. And I think it applies probably to straight acting just as much as anything else.

SS: Well, it does, of course...

JW: You've done that.

SS: ...but I do think that it is... I think what you said about straight actors find... sometimes, not all of them...

JW: No, not always.

SS: ...finding comedy quite difficult. It's kind of simple rules of thumb. You have to lift for the next sentence...

JW: It's timing.

SS: It's timing, I suppose, yes. And you acquired that very early or did you always have it?

JW: No, I think one of the first jobs I did was a long tour of something called The Cure for Love with Wilfred Pickles, does anyone remember Wilfred Pickles? And I was playing his awful fiancée Janey Jenkins and I think on the first night with an audience - I mean, I was brilliant in rehearsals, as you are - and on the first night there was a scene where I was sort of lying across his lap and he was sitting on a bench and I thought I was doing terribly well, when I felt Wilfred's knee in my back saying 'Wait for the laugh, wait for the laugh.' I was just ploughing through as if reading a book. So I suppose that was my first lesson.

SS: We're going to see something now which, as I confessed to you earlier, I desperately wanted this part.

JW: I'm amazed.

SS: And a famous actress called June Whitfield got it. The fact that she did it superbly makes my disappointment larger. She's still one of my best friends. It's had...

JW: You could have had it Sylvia. You could...

SS: Shut up. It's too late now. [laughter] That's the unkindest thing you could have said. It's from a wonderful series with the divine Roy Hudd who commands such a huge part of your life...

JW: Now, there is a man who is a very good actor. Right?

SS: Oh. He is one of the most superb actors in the whole country.

JW: I'm very glad you said that, Sylvia, because I agree, and also very funny.

SS: Yes, he's marvellous. Roy Hudd. Well, she did this series, a part in a series, which he was doing with Edward Woodward called Common As Muck.

JW: Dustbin men.

SS: Dustbin men, yes. We'd like to see the excerpt from Common As Muck, while we praise enormously the divine and brilliant Roy Hudd.

JW: That's alright then.

SS: I shall go and hide. [laughter]

[Clip]

[applause]

Whitfield on Eth

SS: Beautiful, isn't it? Just beautiful. So, we've done that serious bit. And then we come on to modern times, or more modern times, when suddenly this woman of whom that I say I've always been incredibly jealous, gets a time, gets a chance to do one of the most successful series ever. When she was asked to do this, she was also doing some interviews about the olden days, when her famous character in The Glums came about. Denis Norden says in her book, and I'm sure she won't mind me reading you this, 'you are the best character comedian that radio and TV has ever had. For a woman to succeed in show business there are three golden rules. One, know you lines...' she always does that... 'two, speak up and three, be brilliant. June managed all of these in everything she did' and that's Ronnie Barker. Denis Norden said 'For Frank and me the greatest of show business mysteries was how anyone could contemplate doing a comedy show without June Whitfield. It's still a mystery.' Tell us about... go on, do the voice, please.

JW: I don't know that I can...[laughter][applause] Do you remember Eth and The Glums, do you? It's a long time ago you know. I think my voice has dropped an octave by now.

SS: They were absolutely compulsory listening for everyone.

JW: The writing was so brilliant, wasn't it? Frank Muir and Denis Norden for me, and Simpson and Galton - you're going to see later - they are just magnificent writers. Frank and Denis used puns and silly situations and word play... they loved words. I just thought... occasionally you get a repeat of a Take It from Here, on Radio 7...

SS: On Radio 7, that's right.

JW: I think they're still funny. The writing is just so funny. It was the most enjoyable, enjoyable time. Do you want a Ron and Eth story?

SS: Yes. A Ron and Eth story.

JW: Well...

SS: Can you hear alright? Oh yes, you are on, sorry.

JW: There was just one time when Eth said to Ron 'Oh Ron, you've never held your arms around me so tightly before. Whisper to me why, beloved.' 'I'm trying to do up my wrist watch Eth.'[laughter] Frank and Denis wrote that show - I was with it for seven years - they wrote it for eleven years and in those days you couldn't mention on the radio religion, politics or sex. So they managed to do all that funny writing without any references to...

SS: Well there was a lot of double entendre. I think at one point you said - I can't do the voice...

JW: Go on then.

SS: No, I can't.

JW: [whispered] Just hold your own.

SS: What? [laughter] I don't remember that. I'm not going to try and...

JW: No, there were things like the first time they met. She said 'My name is Eth. What's yours?' And he said 'Ron.' 'Oh Ron. You look like a Charlie to me.'[laughter]

SS: Did you also do RoundtheHorn?

JW: No, once I stood in for Betty Marsden when she was unable to do it. She was probably working or something. Just one time.

SS: Brilliantly written.

JW: Oh yes. Brilliant, brilliant.

SS: Wonderful lines. It is the writing isn't it?

JW: Of course it is.

SS: In the end all the comedy we do, all the stuff that we do is to do with the writing.

JW: It does rely on the writing a tremendous amount and if you can find somebody like Tony Hancock who suddenly brings another dimension to it, then that is a joy for everyone, isn't it?

SS: And knowing your lines.

JW: Knowing your lines helps... and not bumping into the furniture. Yes, absolutely.

SS: Now, we're going to have a little bit of Frost on Saturday. When was this done, June?

JW: I cannot... sorry... I really don't remember. Oh but I know it was... I think we were being dug out of the archives. So it must have been after it had finished. And I would say with Dick Bentley and we just... did we do a bit of Ron and Eth? I think we must have...

SS: Let us find out. Right, can we do Frost on Saturday please? Great.

JW: I've got to go down to watch this.

SS: Very good for us you know. Very good.

[Clip]

[applause]

JW: That's my favourite. Fantastic.

SS: Oh wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. Witty and funny.

The present day

SS: Now we come on to present day, so to speak, because we're going to do... oh I know, I have a question I wanted to ask you. You know you did Friends, you did a bit of Friends...

JW: I did.

SS: So grand you see. Was it very different, working with those American artists to working with one of our comics or whatever?

JW: They were all absolutely delightful. I have to say that.

SS: Oh do, do, because people get jealous of you know...

JW: Oh they were fantastic. They really do work. And the lady in charge - I think is it Marta Kauffman - first of all the audience come into the studio at about four o'clock in the afternoon, and they were there until about eleven o'clock at night. They are kept going by the warm-up man who gives them fridge stickers of Friends and asks them questions about who was Joey going out with in... you know, I mean come on. And they adore it. I met two girls outside the studio and I said 'Where are you from?' and they said ' Scotland' and I said 'How long are you staying?' and they said 'As long as they're here.' They were just besotted. And I think that describes all the fans of Friends. But I was a snooty housekeeper, it's very funny because Tom Conti was in it and he... I think he was always trying to make the American father pay for the wedding. Jennifer Saunders was a fashion guru of some kind.

SS: All the English characters were horrid.

JW: All the English characters were horrid.

SS: They really were.

JW: My housekeeper was frightfully snooty. I had about three lines, it was...

SS: Three lines written by a huge committee of writers I gather.

JW: Oh yes. Oh, one time the studio suddenly - this is during rehearsals - about 20 people came in and I thought it was people being given a tour of the studio and things like that. It turned out they were writers - flown in from America, the crew, flown in from America, all their own cameramen and everything. But of course they also paid our cameramen, they had to do that. But they used their own and Kauffman... I mean I thought every scene they did was brilliant, and she would say 'we'll do that again. We'll go again.' And I thought 'why?' They were very good. They all said 'yes, fine.' And just did it again. So they do work very hard for their money. And apparently in America, I think they sometimes... it's been known to carry on until five o'clock in the morning or something... how people sit there all that time I don't know. I suppose they are good fans.

SS: You've been sitting here a long time now, haven't you? [laughter] Now, we come to the time when... are you going to do another series of Ab Fab?

JW: Funnily enough, this... what's today... oh, it's Sunday...

SS: Sunday.

JW: Tomorrow, filming starts... which doesn't involve mother and the following week we rehearse for a Christmas show, an hour I think it is. A Christmas Ab Fab, so there will be a one-off. Whether there'll be anymore, who knows. It depends on Jennifer. But there certainly will be a Christmas one.

SS: Yes. So we're going to... if that's alright, I hope it's alright... are we running over? Are we alright for time? Okay. We'd like to show you... well it's not the only reason I'm jealous but it's one of the reasons... it's funny we work hard together on charity...

JW: When you think of the films she's done, when you think of all the things that...

SS: Shut up. We work very hard together on a charity together so I see all the sides of her. And we have known one another for a good long time. One of the complements I'd like to pay while Suzy's here... I often had to go to things unaccompanied. My husband wasn't mad on going to things when I was married. Your dad... if he saw me standing alone... he always took on two blondes. He would never leave me standing alone. He was incredibly... so thoughtful like that and I can't tell you the number of times I've arrived at big dinners and it's been on my own or... and always if I saw Tim he would be over at my side in a shot. I congratulate you on that and his devotion...

JW: Congratulate him.

SS: Yes, I have to say... well, it's a bit tricky now.

JW: Well... probably keeping an eye.

SS: I think he might be keeping an eye, definitely. Anyway, we're now going to see a bit of Ab Fab, and then we'll say goodbye to June, who I just think is the crème de la crème.

JW: Ah, Sylvia. Well... [applause]

SS: You'll have a chance to do that after the next clip. And it had better be a bit more than that.

JW: But we're going to disappear aren't we? We're going to say goodnight now.

SS: Are we saying goodnight now? Aren't you going to come back and say...

JW: Well I don't know dear, I'm in your hands. I thought we were.

SS: Well in that case, I suggest you all stand up and say 'well done June...'

JW: Oh no, no, no, let me say thank you.

SS: '...and she's sensational and she's still the most attractive bird and she is, the doyenne...

JW: Oh go on, I wish you could interview me every day. Thank you all for coming. Thank you very, very much. And thank you Sylvia, thank you very, very much. [applause]

Audience questions 1

SS: We've made a terrible mistake. We're supposed to say: 'are there any questions?' [laughter] Sit down June and answer.

JW: There might not be any.

SS: Perhaps there aren't any. Anyone got a question? That gentleman there.

Audience member: Can you tell me about Arthur Askey?

JW: Oh of course I can.

SS: Oh, there's lots in her book, it's lovely.

JW: Wonderful, wonderful man. I absolutely adored him. And he really was very funny. You know, everything was live then, black and white. I remember doing a sketch with Arthur. I think we were Anthony and Cleopatra or something very, you know... not quite right. And Arthur... Arthur would... saying how wonderful I was or something or other... and he kept talking about the desert. He'd walk over here and talk about this thing in the desert and then come back and do a bit more swooning. And he did it about three times and the last time he went over he said 'funny how the desert ends just here...' [laughter] He was the first person to talk to the camera and the powers that be didn't like it... said 'Arthur, no, you must stay within the sketch and within this, that and the other.' Not likely, Arthur was the first, really, to communicate with the viewers. It was a joy. There's a story Roy Hudd tells about Arthur in pantomime... the season is coming upon us. There's an old pantomime gag and on...

[tape turns over...]

Monday night, usually... or a Monday matinee, fellow pros would come in to see the pantomime. And this particular time there were a lot of pros in the audience and it got to the bit where Arthur's on the floor and somebody says 'what are you doing down there?' and the answer is 'getting up.' So this time Roy or whoever it was said 'What are you doing down there?' And Arthur looked up and he said 'You don't think I'm giving away my best gags in front of this lot?' [laughter] Marvellous.

SS: Any other questions? Yes.

Audience member: [partially inaudible...] How would you describe Frankie Howerd's and Tony Hancock's strengths and weaknesses?

JW: That's a difficult one. I would say both of them lacked confidence in themselves. I've always thought with all the comics, when they've got their own show, there's really only one way for them to go. You know the next show has to be as good or better. Or it's down. Which is... I think it does put a lot of stress on them. And especially in the early days when a comic could go round the country for years doing the same act. But from television onwards, they had to find new material all the time because you can't...

SS: Ate it up...

JW: Ate it up, absolutely ate up material, and even with a series on television, it's that search for material the whole time. I think it's one of the reasons why so many of them probably left this earth sooner than they should... because the strain of doing that is quite enormous. And their strengths, Tony's was vulnerability, he was a - as far as the viewers were concerned - he was a vulnerable character, and Frank's was just... Frank. I mean he was funny. You know he just had that... he'd just have to walk on and you were smiling...

SS: Like Tommy Cooper.

JW: Yes, like Tommy Cooper.

SS: But he was terrified too.

JW: Tommy? Well yes I did, I think, one sketch in his show. And I remember him coming into rehearsal and he didn't say good morning or anything to anybody. He said 'what do you think of this?' And then he'd do a trick or start a trick and we'd all be standing there looking and he'd say 'no, no, no, no, no, I have to start again.' And he'd put it away. And then we'd start the sketch. But you never quite knew what he was going to say or when he was going to stop. Probably one of those people who would say 'it's your turn now' so that was all right.

SS: Anyone else?

Audience member: Who is your favourite actress?

JW: Judi Dench. Oh, you can say no more. I think Judi Dench is magnificent, don't you? There is one who can do comedy and drama... you name it, she can do it. Including being M in the Bond films, I mean to say... it's just phenomenal, she has a wonderful quality, a wonderful voice. I don't know if you saw Mrs Brown [John Madden, 1997], I can't say enough about her. And she is so nice. I did... oh I've forgotten what it was called... oh The Last of the Blonde Bombshells [Gillies MacKinnon, 2000] with Judi and she was a bigger star than any of us but she's absolutely charming.

SS: Friends with everyone.

JW: Yes. Just... she's there, she's brilliant.

Audience member: A male actor?

JW: A male actor. Oh gosh! Don't know many.

SS: Cary Grant's dead. [laughter]

JW: Oh I liked him. Oh do you know... no, wait a minute, I've forgotten his name... my favourite, oh Rita Hayworth and Glenn...

Audience member: Ford.

JW: ... thank you, yes it was him. But then I discovered actually he was an alcoholic. But I absolutely adored him. I thought he was wonderful. I liked all of those really... Spencer Tracy... nowadays... very difficult to beat David Jason, he's another who's very versatile and... what?

SS: Yes, he's a wonderful actor.

JW: Yes, he's a great actor. But... [laughter] There was a tone there Sylvia... [laughter]

SS: Well, I tell you what, you just think he's wonderful actor but I can't see you drooling over him as you used to about Cary Grant.[laughter]

JW: But I wasn't asked if it was to drool over.

SS: Sorry.

JW: Can we think of any droolers? Who is your drooler? Who would you drool over?

Audience member: Probably...

JW: Pierce Brosnan. He's lovely by the way.

SS: Not bad. You know him? You see, she's met them all. [laughter]

JW: My daughter was in a film with him.

SS: Oh well.

JW: On the telly years ago.

SS: Yes, go on.

Audience member: The one who was in that pirate film.

SS: Johnny Depp. Oh Johnny. Oh you must go and see The Search for Neverland [Finding Neverland, Marc Forster, 2004].

JW: Oh I heard that yes.

SS: He's a proper actor you see, Johnny Depp. He does different things. Another question about Madame Whitfield here, yes, the striped jumper?

Audience member: How do you stay looking so young?

JW: Nice of you to say so, sir. Clean living. [laughter] No I think probably inherited skin from my mother has something to do with it.

SS: Yes, blue shirt?

Audience member: What was it like working with Jimmy Edwards?

JW: Wonderful. I love Jim. He was exactly as you saw him on the screen or anything, this big buffoon of a man. And an extraordinary juxtaposition, really, when it was discovered that he was gay. We worked with him all those years and would never have thought for a minute... but there you are, these things happen.

SS: Must have caused a great deal of torment in those days for him.

JW: For him it must have, absolutely, absolutely, yes.

SS: Yes, fair hair over there.

Audience member: I was wondering, June, did you never want to have a television series in which you were the star or was it just that women didn't in those days? And also, do you think you were paid enough for what you did? [laughter]

JW: Never, never. No, a) I was never asked, and b) I never really pushed for it. I think I funked it. I think I would always rather have been part of a team rather than being out there on my own. I could never have done stand-up comedy in a million years. I think that must be the most death-defying thing to do. Would you ever do that Sylvia?

SS: Sometimes.

JW: Yes. Well there you are you see. I could not... I couldn't do that.

Audience member: Oh I think you could.

SS: She can actually do anything.

JW: No I would funk it.

SS: Honesty is part of the nature.

JW: Yes, oh well.

SS: Any others, yes dear?

Audience member: [inaudible...]

JW: No, they're mostly pinched from Roy. No, not really. Oh well, I don't know, once when I was in pantomime being the fairy and we had a magic rabbit, which was actually on the end of a stick and one of the stage hands would sweep it down the wings or see up in a box or something and I was flitting about the stage saying 'I can't think where it is. Have you seen a rabbit? No?' And all the kids were saying 'look, over there, see over there...' So that the spotlights went where the rabbit was and this particular time the spotlight went on the box, there was the rabbit and there was her mum feeding her baby. [laughter] I don't know who was more embarrassed actually.

SS: Thank you. Anybody else? Just a sec, there's one over the... right over the back there waving a hand.

Audience questions 2

Audience member: [partially inaudible...] Were there any actresses you admired as you were growing up.

JW: Oh, all of them. Judy Garland, Katharine Hepburn, you name it, those 40s film stars. Definitely.

SS: Yes, there was another person right at the back. Yes, you.

Audience member: Can I ask you about Dick Bentley, please, because I met him and knew him early in the 80s and I found him a very strange and quiet man... was he always like that?

JW: Dick had a wonderful sense of humour. He was quiet by comparison with Jim, and his wife Peta, P-E-T-A was indeed a very strong lady. And I think she was a little bit jealous of Jimmy.

Audience member: [inaudible...]

JW: Did you? Yes, so she was very protective of...

Audience member: [partially inaudible...] her hand all around...

JW: More than likely.

SS: Any more questions? Before we get sued. [laughter] Yes, gentleman at the back?

Audience member: Can I ask about the lady... some of your work with Sylvia Syms?

SS: What did we do together? [laughter]

JW: We did a year's run in a play.

SS: Oh, Not Now Darling.

JW: Yes. Yes, you see the memory does go. I mean it's...

SS: Not Now Darling. What I admired most about the many things I admired about you was the way you handled Leslie, and also the fact that when the door came... do you remember the... there was a curved door on a bar?

JW: Yes.

SS: Which one matinee day came completely away?

JW: Yes.

SS: And Andrew Sachs had to spend most of the next part of the act hanging on to it? So it didn't crash down onto the stage?

JW: Yes, yes.

SS: You were the only one who didn't get a fit of the giggles.

JW: I probably didn't see it, dear. [laughter] Yes, we did have a long run together.

SS: Leslie, Leslie Phillips. He's another naughty one. He likes to make you laugh or do something wrong. We had a... I was his secretary or something and we were standing opposite each other. And Leslie does a dead eye, you know he shuts one... and looks at you like that with his... you know with his upstage eye, he does that. And he did it to me... and I did it back. And I think I got a very small smile from Leslie. He never seemed... he never was difficult with you though?

JW: No, he wasn't difficult. But then, that was probably my fault. I mean, I say I think one of the reasons that I've lasted as long as I have - touch wood - is that I'm no bother. You know.

SS: I don't think you notice much.

JW: No, I don't. Life's too short.

SS: The work we do, which in some ways is almost as important, is we do work for charities, the same charities and that's a great joy isn't it, the work we do?

JW: Oh yes, it is, yes it's a thing called Stage for Age - which we've all discovered now is probably not a very good name for it, because it sounds as if it's for old actors...

SS: It isn't anything to do with that.

JW: ...and it's not. It's a sort of fundraising arm of Help the Aged because years and years ago, Sir Ian Trethowan thought there was so much done for children and... we'd just had Children in Need and everything again... and he thought that it was time that some actors, sportsmen, celebrities would get together to raise money for the elderly. So that's how we became affiliated to Help the Aged. So that's what that does. And we... when you say you work for a charity, really what one does is... if you are not working, you make yourself available when they want you to go and be at some thing to possibly help the publicity. I think that's the idea. Whether it works or not I never know.

SS: It does most of the time if it's you, love.

JW: Ha, ha, ha.

SS: Any other questions. Yes?

Audience member: Do you miss not having been given the chance to do more singing and dancing in your career?

JW: Oh, when I was young, I wanted to be Judy Garland and then as I got older I think I realised that I wasn't going to be and... I suppose it was the idea of doing different things. I did musicals, I did review. And then some theatre came along, then television and radio. It's... I just take what comes. But there's nothing as joyous as being in a musical - certainly at the time when I did them with a full 24-piece orchestra. You go into the theatre and you hear the orchestra starting up the overture, it's really... you know, makes you think 'this is what it's about.' And I am going to see The Producers, are you? [laughter]

SS: Any others? There's one gentleman at the back there?

Audience member: [inaudible...]

SS: Sorry? Love from Judy they want.

JW: Now funnily enough... no it wasn't that one, I beg your pardon. Yes, I thought that was a jolly good show. Excellent music, some lovely songs... it's never been repeated. I don't know, maybe because it was about an orphan. Oh and the other thing is... do you know who was one of the orphans in 1951?

Audience member: Barbara Windsor.

JW: Yes. Oh, dear, dear Barbara, I have told this story before... and then I'll stop. But she... Barbara... the orphans grew up and grew out. And when they grew out they left... you know, the show, they had to be little orphans. Barbara lasted eighteen months or whatever it was. And the next time I saw Barbara was at The Pigalle, with everything thrust. And I said to her 'Barbara, how did you last all that time? Did this happen overnight?' And she said 'I used to bind 'em up didn't I?' [laughter] She was obviously going somewhere then.

SS: Any other questions?

Audience member: I seem to remember you standing up and doing a comedy version of Cinderella and it was hilarious... the British Music Hall Society...

SS: Are you sure it was me and not Dickie Attenborough's wife? [laughter]... who's even older than I am... well I'm glad, as long as it was funny... is that it now? One more, one more.

JW: I think they must be getting bored.

SS: One more and then I must let June go... yes... right at the back.

Audience member: In the late 70s there was a revival of... [inaudible...]

JW: Yes I do remember, do you mean on television? Yes. And I thought... they were all very good, but I didn't really think it transferred because the great thing about radio, as Dick Bentley said... is you have your own idea of how these people look. We did it once in a Faces of Jim. I was Eth and Ronnie Barker was Ron, because they thought Dick was too old, which was a bit daft really. Of course Ronnie was brilliant but the thing is I felt uncomfortable because I always saw Eth as very tall and thin, with very long lanky hair, and I could have done the lanky hair but I couldn't do the tall and thin. And I think when it was done on television, when Pa Glum has got his toe stuck in the tap in the bathroom and everything, and they put gravy browning in the bath so that Eth can go in and help him get his foot out or something, it's not on television, you're thinking 'well he could get out of that.' It's not the same, it doesn't use your imagination in the same way. I think there are some shows that belong on radio. What did you think?

Audience member: [inaudible...]

JW: Oh well it's very nice of you to say so.

SS: Right, I think we must actually let June go now.

JW: Let the audience go, I think.

SS: They're not watching an episode of Friends so they're allowed out now.

JW: They're allowed out now, yes, definitely... again, many, many thanks.

SS: Again I would like to reiterate the honour it's been... come on... [applause]