Interview with Lucy Bailey and Andrew Thompson

27 Oct 2009

We talk to the makers of Mugabe and the White African.

How did you become involved with this project?

AT: We've both done a lot of filming in Africa and always had a passion for filmmaking. We were both filming in South Africa and aware of the situation in Zimbabwe. We saw the tide of exiles coming over the border. It was reading a small snippet in a newspaper in South Africa about white farmer Mike Campbell, who was challenging Robert Mugabe through the national court, that we looked at one another and thought, "Well, perhaps that's the story to tell the story".

LB: We had found a very intimate story of one family, and through that one family's story you get a bigger picture of what's happening inside Zimbabwe.

It must have been an extremely challenging shoot. Logistically, how difficult was it to make a film in Zimbabwe?

LB: Pretty much impossible. It took a lot of planning and coordinating because we had to go in illegally. We had to smuggle the equipment in because, if we were caught with the equipment, people would know we were there making a film. It was a logistical nightmare. We'd have to come up with cover stories and go in through a different border with a different reason every time. It was a lot of hard work and quite dangerous.

Did you ever feel you were in physical danger?

AT: Yes. I've done a lot of filming in hostile environments, doing TV jobs when I seem to get shot at or people try to blow me up, and I've never worked anywhere that's been more terrifying than Zimbabwe. Ben in the film talks about a climate of fear in Zimbabwe and he's absolutely right.

We were filming in 2008 and it was doubly difficult because of the attention surrounding the various presidential election runs. The key to success was to do short, sharp trips, to get in quickly, to use a few borders, to always travel separately from the equipment, to keep it small, to use safe houses, to always keep one step ahead of the CIO, the police or the army. They were never far behind and we had to run a few times.

How involved did you feel with the harrowing circumstances you document in the film?

LB: You are totally involved, you can't fail to be. I think any good filmmaker is involved on that emotional level, because you put everything of yourself into it. There are times when it's really tough, particularly the night when the family were abducted. We sat up that night not knowing what was going to happen. It's that weird thing, you're detached to an extent but you're also very involved. I think we had a fantastic relationship and they trusted us enough to give us access to those moments in their lives.

The film is beautifully shot. Was it your intention to make a documentary that feels 'cinematic' on the big screen?

AT: We always wanted to make a feature film that would play on a large screen to a large audience. We didn't just want to make a wobbly television programme. You do get news reports out of Zimbabwe and they're shot on handheld cameras. Mike, Ben and the workers are fighting for something, and it's very important the audience understands what it is they're fighting for. That real sense of space can only be captured by a large format camera, but it made our lives considerably more difficult. But I'm delighted with it. I think it looks great and I think, as an audience, you engage with the fight that they're fighting because you identify with the places they're fighting so hard to protect.

LB: We try to layer not only images, but the sound, so you really feel like you're in that country, you really feel that atmosphere and that sense of fear and intimidation.

Who are your influences?

AT: I'm a bit of an old duffer! I quite like Phil Ackland's stuff, he's a great filmmaker. I like those rather old fashioned anthropological television series that are barely commissioned these days. I like very personal stories that tell much wider ones, and I hope ours is the same.

LB: Kevin MacDonald is brilliant. Brian Woods has made great documentaries like Chosen. He tackles difficult subjects as well.

AT: We're pretty shallow. I like Dodgeball.

Katy Fife

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