James L. Brooks on his return to directing: “The word ‘content’ is not my favourite”
From The Simpsons to Broadcast News and the Best Picture-winning Terms of Endearment, James L. Brooks has been a driving force in American film and TV for more than half a century. As Ella McCay, his first film as director in 15 years, arrives in cinemas, he spoke to us about his storied career and returning to filmmaking at a time when so much in the industry has changed.
If his only achievement had been as one of the guiding forces behind The Simpsons, James L. Brooks’ career would be impressive enough. Three Oscars and 22 Emmys, however, tell a much bigger story. Brooks also created some of the most successful, groundbreaking TV shows of their time, including The Mary Tyler Moore Show (1970 to 1977) and Taxi (1978 to 1983). And alongside writing and directing critical and commercial hit movies such as Terms of Endearment (1983), Broadcast News (1987) and As Good as It Gets (1997), he’s also produced auspicious feature debuts from up-and-coming young filmmakers, including Cameron Crowe (Say Anything…, 1989), Wes Anderson (Bottle Rocket, 1996) and Kelly Fremon Craig (The Edge of Seventeen, 2016).
Brooks’ work centres around generous, character-driven, heartfelt comedies. His first new film in 15 years, Ella McCay, is no exception. Ella (Emma Mackey) is a passionate, idealistic lieutenant state governor with a troubled family history and a gift for getting into personal and professional trouble. Unfolding over a seismic few days in her life, it’s a screwball comedy that touches on serious issues, refusing to define its protagonists as simple heroes or villains. In Brooks’ house style, everyone, no matter how much of a mess they make, can find their place and family.
Leigh Singer: One of Ella McCay’s taglines is ‘how to survive the people you love’. That’s a theme that reoccurs across different stories you’ve told, so how do you feel it manifests specifically in this film?
James L. Brooks: You know, I’m very wary of rules. But your character has an arc, and what’s an arc if it’s not leaving some people and discovering new ones? First, Ella had a rotten family background, which I identify with. She’s bright, she’s smart, she’s driven. And her dirty secret comes out in the middle of the film when she says, ‘I can make people’s lives better.’ You don’t say it out loud unless you’re stoned, but it’s the truth. She was born with that ability and doesn’t misuse it.
You have a strong track record with vivid, complex female protagonists. Do you feel Ella has a kinship with, say, Jane Craig in Broadcast News, or Emma Horton and Aurora Greenaway in Terms of Endearment?
They have in common that they’re all smart, but I think their smartness is different from each other’s. Ella isn’t so self-aware. Things are moving so fast that I don’t think she gets a chance to reflect until finally in the movie she does.
The film is pointedly set in 2008 and obviously it’s concerned with politics. Did you feel that if you were to set it today, its prospects would’ve been negatively affected?
Oh yes, because back then we still liked each other! America is such a divided country politically right now. I can’t think of a time when it was more so. 2008 was goodbye to innocence.
I won’t spoil the film’s final line, but given that it deals with confronting trauma, was making this film for you in the current climate a sort of act of hope?
To tell the sticky truth, doing the picture made me more hopeful. I had a lifelong beef with my errant father, and this quieted some, just doing this picture – which I don’t think he deserves. [laughs]
The last feature that you wrote and directed was in 2010. So – what’s kept you all this time?
A day job that I like, and I was busy producing other films, but… I don’t know, because when they say the number of years, it’s extraordinary. I wasn’t aware of them. But then, at a certain point, I was, in almost a critical way, saying, “Holy shit, I haven’t written in…”
The day job you’re talking about is The Simpsons? Its longevity, from 1989 onwards, is unprecedented. For someone who’s been involved from the outset, how do you see the show, and your role, has changed over this time?
Well, for the first group of years, I was ferociously involved. What’s good is that a show runner comes along and then it takes on a freshness. Right now, we have one of our best show runners, I think, who’s taking it in new directions. And Matt Groening and I are still there on the key rewrite day. Sometimes it’s extensive, sometimes it’s just a polish.
Do you have a personal favourite episode?
Way back there was when Lisa got a teacher…
That’s the one with Dustin Hoffman?
Yes, yes. It was early years of the show, and he was in New York. And just to do it right, we went to New York to the recording studio, and it made us all so thrilled to work with the star of the moment. It just broke down a boundary.
As you said, you’ve produced many filmmakers’ first features – Cameron Crowe, Wes Anderson, Kelly Fremon Craig – who’ve gone on to have highly successful careers. They’re all quite different, so are there any similarities you identify to get you involved?
That they have their own voice. That they have a voice.
Then how do you see your role on those projects and that balance between nurturing someone’s own voice and your own contributions?
I just try to be the guy I can never be for myself. Mike Nichols used to say, “Every director needs a buddy on the picture, somebody who tells them the truth.” I try and be that to them.
Could you give a specific example? Say, with Wes Anderson?
With Wes, I went down to Texas, there was this room that all these guys were living in, including Owen Wilson. And I said, “Have you ever read the script out loud?” And he said, no. Three hours and 45 minutes later…! That draft was so long, and then the work began.
Did you have a ‘buddy’ yourself when you were starting out?
No. Maybe I’m hard to like. I don’t know. [laughs]
Though I heard that Jack Nicholson was helpful to you on Terms of Endearment. Obviously he was vastly experienced at the time, and it was your first feature.
He used to do it with good humour, to come up and say, “You know the worst direction you gave today?” And then, “You know the best direction you gave today?” And it was great. He was totally supportive.
Famously your 1994 film I’ll Do Anything was conceived as a musical, including songs by Prince, but after test screenings, you took them all out. I know you’re happy with the version that was released, but there’s a YouTube clip of Albert Brooks singing the cut song ‘I’ll Do Anything’… Would you ever want that other musical version out in the world? Or is it simply not possible because of the Prince estate?
You’re very smart, yes. I had the worst time of my life on that because it just fell apart. The local paper saw the walkouts at my first preview, and they started to write about it. So, I wanted to do a documentary on what I was going through, to get away from the pain of having it inflicted on me, and say, “And this is the picture they saw that night.” And Prince wouldn’t give me the song rights for that. Now I’ve passed it on. Don’t look back.
Your TV work in the 1970s, from The Mary Tyler Moore Show to Taxi, is legendary, and acclaimed and awarded. When you look at modern television with streaming, etc, do you feel like you would’ve enjoyed coming in the way the industry works today?
The word ‘content’ is not my favourite. They started to call these shows, these dreams, ‘content’. And data rules. Years ago, Netflix said they knew in the first five minutes whether a series would be successful. When we did The Mary Tyler Moore Show, we bombed on our first night – and we fixed it.
I guess this ties in to how the industry has started to use AI too…
I’m uncomfortable that machines are spitting out the fate of all the shows. So many times, somebody, a human being, has done something that helped my work. And having experienced that, I don’t know if good old AI is… You can’t measure a new idea.
I always liked that the animated logo for your company Gracie Films has someone ‘Shh-ing’ a movie audience, like you need to pay attention. Is that harder to achieve nowadays with the type of films you like to make and shifts in audience tastes and attention spans?
I used to think that if you made a picture 2 [hours] 14 [minutes], there’s something fantastic that happens in that extra hunk of time… the best thing you can hope for your picture is that the audience walks out with characters that linger in your mind. The bar now is what, 1 [hour] 58 or something… [laughs]
Given that you write and produce and direct, is there one of those disciplines that, if you had to pick one-
[instantly] Writing.
Finally, your last film How Do You Know was also the last film we saw Jack Nicholson in. You’ve been kind of mutual lucky charms, him winning two Oscars in your films. Any idea whether he might also be coming back?
Oh, he’s reading scripts, I think we’ll see him. I love the guy.
And will we have to wait another 15 for your next film?
No, sir. I have notes. I have notes.
Just notes?
Well, not just notes! I think I have the beginnings of what would be my next film…
That’s good enough for me.
Ella McCay is out in UK cinemas on 12 December.