Warren Ellis on his best soundtracks: “Quite often, looking at the image is the least important thing”

Perhaps best known for his work as part of renowned musical ensembles – initially with Australian instrumental rock band Dirty Three and, latterly, as a key member of Nick Cave’s Bad Seeds – Warren Ellis has also established himself as a composer of renown. Initially teaming up on soundtracks with Cave, more recently he’s shouldered full responsibility on award-winning scores – a César for Mustang (2015), a Brazilian Otelo this year for Walter Salles’ I’m Still Here (2024). 

The intimate, touching documentary Ellis Park, directed by Justin Kurzel (Snowtown, Macbeth, Nitram) reveals yet more facets to the 60-year-old musician. It’s something of a hybrid, tracing Ellis’s turbulent, formative years and family history in Ballarat, Victoria, alongside his investment and co-founding of the eponymous animal sanctuary in Java, Indonesia, run by indefatigable Dutch ex-pat Femke den Haas and her dedicated conservationist team. 

Ellis is so inspired by his experiences there that he’s shown feverishly composing themes out in the jungle. We took this opportunity to talk to him about some of his key film soundtracks, as well as a score that means a lot to him.

This was yours and Nick Cave’s first film score?

Yeah. I’d probably been playing for 10 years but I didn’t have a clue then, how to do a score. Nick had written the script, so he had insight into it, but in terms of the process, I just sat down, started making music, and it was done very quickly, like, four days, I think. It’s kind of the process I continue to this day where, if I sit down and make some music, something will happen. Quite often, looking at the image is the least important thing.

This is what I understand – you don’t sit there, watch a scene and go, right I’m going to write something for what’s happening on screen?

I’m unable to do that. The Proposition was quite radical when it came out, because, from my understanding there weren’t a lot of people outside of score composers working then. So, to have this more rock’n’roll approach to stuff, we were way out of our wheelhouse. But we just made stuff, and then the editor would sit it in and put that to a certain scene, and he’d go, “Hey, come and have a look at this.” It was a real creative process.

It feels like this score is the one most people recognise, tracks like ‘Song for Jesse’ and ‘Song for Bob’…

It seems like the one that put us on the [map]. Working with [director] Andrew [Dominik], I’m forever in his debt. Andrew made us step up to a greater plate than our own delusions of grandeur. ‘Song for Bob’, I remember we just couldn’t crack it. We sent him stuff and eventually he came back and was like, “No, I don’t get it.” I always had this philosophy of, one day I won’t be able to do it and it’s all going to stop. And I was in Air Studios, and I thought, ‘This is the day it happens.’ And I just burst into tears. Then I thought, ‘Right oh’, and we sat down, slowed down some chord sequences and came up with ‘Song for Bob’. And Andrew goes, ‘Ah, that’s it.’

And he was still very tough on you guys, I hear!

The funny thing is, then we went in and did strings and all this stuff. Then Andrew went back, and only used all the rough mixes. To this day, he still says, “You guys fucked up that release, my mixes were better!”

So, the released soundtrack isn’t always the actual music in the film?

Yeah, the film is a lot of me doubling up violins. There are hardly any strings on it. He was probably right on that account. When I watch the film, it’s kind of leaner now.

This was the first film score you composed solo. How did that come about?

Deniz Ergüven asked me to do the score and as soon as I saw the opening five minutes, I knew it was going to be great, there was something so compelling. But I had to go on tour and I said, “Look, you need somebody who can be really devoted to this, I’ve got to leave in six days.” And she just goes, “Well, what am I meant to do? I can’t imagine anybody else doing the music.”

I was also scared because I’d never done anything like this on my own, and I had to do it basically, because there was no money. Then I did a radio thing, and I made up a piece in the taxi on the way over, just played it and recorded it and sent it to her. She chopped it in and said, “This works amazingly.” So, I said, “Okay, if you can work like this with me, I’ll do the score.”

Again, it sounds like completely working on the fly…

I had this little studio in the shed and worked out how to record on Pro Tools and recorded the score in six days. Then we mixed it over FaceTime! She’d be on screen watching the cut saying, “When they’re going through this door, pull the bass out.” So, I’d do that manually over the computer… it was wild. There’s an energy you get with a person’s first film, a sort of beautiful naivety that you don’t get again. Doing that score was really important because it showed me that I could function without my usual safety nets.

I understand you had an unusual experience with director Walter Salles, trying to score a scene where the lead character, freed from interrogation, takes a cleansing shower.

Yeah, Walter was sitting in the room with me, and that particular piece you’re talking about, I was trying to remember how to play the mandolin, because I hadn’t played for a while. So, I’m thinking, “What fucking finger goes next?” and I hear this sobbing. Then I get to the end and Walter just broke down, he’s like, ‘I could feel her skin coming off…” He had to decompress for a couple of minutes after that.

Curiously enough, the next day, I went in, and asked him, “How’s that cue?” And he goes, “Yeah, it’s not really working…” It’s this kind of wild thing that happens in the process that it doesn’t really mean anything until later on. Eventually he put it back in, and it’s really about the result once people start watching it. It’s part of what I find amazing about the whole creative process. I love that it’s ever changing and ever evolving.

How about a film score by another composer that means a lot to you?

I love Jóhann Jóhannsson film scores. He was the best of our generation, I believe, and I just walked around crying for a couple of days when I found out he died. I particularly love Mandy, the way the music that he created was so immersive and beautiful. We got this sense of this couple and this love that they felt for each other. 

I loved all the guitar work by Stephen O’Malley from Sunn O))). I just love how Jóhann was able to make all these worlds collide and there was always some emotional heart that served the film and also stood on its own as a musical expression. It just wasn’t a piece of score thrown in there to do something and a great example of where everything is working together to create a cinematic experience. Nothing’s an afterthought.

Ellis Park is released in the UK and Ireland on 26 September.